Just in case anyone was planning on purchasing a Dell Precision M90 and running a 64-bit OS, it’s important to be aware of the maximum RAM limitation. It appears the M90 is being limited by the 945 Chipset.
Dell is kind enough to mention the following:
“The total amount of available memory will be less than 4GB. The amount less depends on the actual system configuration. To fully utilize 4GB or more of memory requires a 64-bit enabled processor and 64-bit OS.”
This is a little misleading since it implies that running a 64-bit OS on the M90 will allow you to fully utilize 4GB or more of RAM.
Even though the M90 is 64-bit enabled, the full 4GB will not be available. The 945 Express Chipset is 32-bit and limits the amount of accessible RAM to 3326mb even when running a 64-bit OS.
The M65 has the same problem. Dell advertises with 4GB of RAM but if you buy it, you won’t be able to use it. Not even on Vista 64 bit.
“The total amount of available memory will be less than 4GB. The amount less depends on the actual system configuration. To fully utilize 4GB or more of memory requires a 64-bit enabled processor and 64-bit OS.”
I have a 64 bit processor and a 64 bit OS but still no 4GB of RAM.
Who wants to join me in making this a case.
Duco
You will end up with 3.25 GB. The limitation seems to be on the BIOS, as it does not recognize more than 3.25. On Dell they have been explaining me that it was “reserved” by devices… As it has a 512MB of video dedicated memory my imagination is not big enough to guess what are they reserved for or by…
petrutz at yahoo
There are a couple of nice explanations:
IdeaStorm.com
and
Digg.com
So it seems that the BIOS doesn’t see more than 3.25GB due to chipset.
Quote:
Actually, I *do* run a 64-bit OS on my Latitude D820–specifically, Ubuntu Feisty Fawn (v7.04), 64-bit Edition. However, I, too, see the 3.25GB DRAM limitation…yes, in 64-bit mode. And I now know why. The memory issue is indeed related to the HARDWARE. Specifically, it’s due to the Intel 945 chipset used in Dell’s laptops and has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the operating system.
Yes, the CPU is 64-bit. Yes, the operating system is 64-bit. Unfortunately, the north bridge used in the Intel 945 chipset is limited to 2^32 addressable points on the memory bus. Intel’s spec sheet for the i945 chipset confirms this. So basically, Dell cheaped out and used a 64-bit CPU (the Intel Core 2 Duo) with a 32-bit north bridge and didn’t bother to tell anyone. NOT COOL.
You can see this when you go into the BIOS, long before the OS is booted. On my Latitude D820, the BIOS shows that two 2GB sticks (4096MB) of DRAM are *installed*…but the computer is only *using* 3327MB (3.25GB). Remember, this is BEFORE the OS is booted.
Dell, you need to be more up-front with your customers about this. Don’t sell such computers with 4GB DRAM when all you can use is 3GB (3.25GB on some models). I successfully challenged it with a credit-card chargeback for half the price of that second 2GB stick. But you shouldn’t have put me in that position in the first place.
Note that the new Santa Rosa MacBook Pros do not have the RAM limitation. This will be awesome for when Leopard comes out and will make for a great 64-bit system running XP 64 or Vista 64.
The Dell M90 still has the limitation. The worst part is Dell’s largest customers (aerospace, gov, etc) are the ones buying the M90 because they need a mobile workhorse with access to lots of RAM. They later find out about the RAM limitation after already purchasing it.
Duco:
I have an M65, I bought it with 2GB but always thinking in upgrading it to 4GB. Well, yesterday I installed the 4GB and of course I have the same problem all of you described.
I would really like to make a case for it. I feel deceived.
Hope you read this message.
My email: felipe.valdes @ gmail . com
The company I work for just purchased 18 M90’s last week for enginneers with 4GB RAM WinXP 32bit I was aware of the 32bit limitation on Ram along with the reserve but on a 64 bit thats supposed to be moved to higher registries and give you all 4 GB, I was not aware of the chipset limitation! We asked Dell specific questions about the 64bit install and they didnt tell us the chipset would cause an issue!
We were planning on installing 64bit on them in the near future. This sounds like a class action lawsuit!
This looks like they used a cheap chipset for an expensive highend workstation.
Thanks for the info, they (Dell) were not upfront with us.:(
Not cool at all- I purchased my system thinking that I would be able to use the full 4 GB of RAM. Count me in on the lawsuit, isn’t this false advertising?
I work on enterprise applications and 4G seemed nice (for real world demos) when I discovered only 3.25G (Linux x86-64) I was a little upset. I specifically bought this laptop for the 4G of memory! Count me in on a lawsuit as well. Who knows an attorney?
I bought my M90 more than 1 year ago specifically for its 4GB upgradability. Today I installed the 4GB sticks and ran into the same problem. Really pissed off. Count me in on the class action.
Count one more on that class action lawsuit. I picked up an M65 and find myself wishing for a Thinkpad. I use VM Ware heavily and need access to ALL 4GB.
Such BS.
If they simply would have limited the laptop to 2GB they would have a lot of happy customers and those of us who needed more could have bought elsewhere.
Now Dell is faced with a lot of pissed off former customers like myself.
Grrr, Dell did rip us off didn’t they. Had the same issue as everyone else. Got an M90, upgraded to Vista 64-bit and still end up with under 3.5GB. Count me in on the lawsuite as well.
Same issues here on XP64. And Dell appears ignorant :(
Can 1-2GB and 1-1GB stick be used for 3 GB total, or do they have to be the same? I have an M65 w/2GB and I would like to upgrade
Same here. M65 and found out after ordering an additional 2G of ram that I was hosed. I won’t be buying any more workstation class laptops from Dell.
It’s not only dell - Toshiba are at it too; I’m not a happy chap.
Installed 4gb mem to my Inspiron 9400 with 64 bit vista and 64 bit processor (core 2 duo 7200) but vista seems to be able to see only the 3.25gb. Please count me in against any class action against Dell.
where do we go from here then?
Does anyone know if we could expect any solution from Dell in the nearest future? I get angry each time I turn on the computer and see the welcome center on my computer wich only shows 3.25gb ram. I seriously considering blowing my m1710 up in smoke.
I also purchased my system thinking that I would be able to use the full 4 GB of RAM.Will recommend against buying DELL, must employ Politicians, as they are lying about what they sell.
Yes Precision M65 just got excited that DDR2 RAM was at a good price on Crucial 2×2G for $90, $6 for shipping. Well just installed and now found out myself that my 64 bit Ubuntu only sees:
total used free shared buffers cached
Mem: 3354924 494112 2860812 0 11360 222184
Disappointed but I guess I’ll survive. Figured I’d lose some with the vid RAM but wow almost 700M lost.
Hello Folks, I NEED YOUR HELP WITH A CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT!!!!!
I have contacted a firm here in South Carolina that handles class action suits. What I need from you is to support me on this and send them a message backing us on this.
Dell LIED to us when they sell their systems saying it has the ability to utilize a 4GB of RAM capacity! A BOLD FACED LIE!
Please, visit http://www.stromlaw.com/ and fill out the “Free Consultation” form. Please mention that you support Matt J’s case to go after Dell and how we have all been purposefully deceived!
Thanks,
Matt
I bought my M90 from dell expecting to use 4GB of RAM. and for sure like every one else in the planet i face the same problem of having only 3.25 GB or RAM.
So add me to the list.
all check this document, it was given to me by Dell tech support guy and he is claiming that the BIOS takes the first GB as per the document
http://www.polywell.com/us/support/faq/4GB_Rev1.pdf
Also they gave me this link
Dear All,
After long conversation that took 1 hour with tech support from Dell, the conversation reached dead end, one time they blame Microsoft, the other time they blame the chipset.
sadly i can’t load a file with all the conversation over here. if some one has a forum post where this issue is raised i would load the whole conversation.
Bought an Optiplex with no intention of upgrading and they allowed me to spend $$$ for 4GB though it can only use 3GB under win XP.
count me in!
[Trackback]
http://www.networkworld.com/news…
Class Action Suit Against Dell For Lying About RAM Capacity? That’s right people! If you purchased a Dell system that advertises that it can utilize a 4GB RAM […]
I work for a company that bought a BUNCH of these M90’s. We needed a design station replacement becaause the design engineers often travel off site. The M90 was suppose to be that solution, but with the limitation of the 32-bit Northbridge, it became a huge disappointment.
At this point I feel that Dell owes everyone a partial rebate.
Was about to upgrade my M90 to 4GB but thought I should do a little research to see if it would really help out with rendering and compositing. Glad I found this site. I guess I can go up to 3GB, but what the hell? I was promised the full 4GB as long as I had a x64 OS… bastards.
I just filled out the form to support the class action with http://www.stromlaw.com/ I put a lot of money in this laptop (M90) I considered as one of the bests, now I feel really disappointed that I can’t reach the 4GB.
Aha!
I just looked into what is included in SP1 and it changed the way the amount of memory is REPORTED… “Before SP1, the amount of memory that Windows reported was equal to the amount of memory that Windows was ABLE TO USE. In SP1, the amount of memory reported is the amount of memory that is actually installed in your computer…”
Looks like MS is trying to help cover Dell’s butt. Sickening…
Where did you see that quote? What is SP1 referring to? I’ve got XP SP3 and it still doesn’t show the full 4GB of RAM - only 3.25GB.
I also bought the Precision m65 for use with CAD modelling and rendering thinking it would support 4 whole Gigabytes of memory only to find myself dissapointed when i installed an extra 2 GB and vista , XP and ubuntu claimed i only had 3.25 GB.
Microsoft are trying to cover this farce up as in vista service pack 1 they released a fix that made the system information show that 4gb was available. This fix was purely cosmetic as the OS could still only see and uttilize 3.25 GB!!! which means that vista are lying about how much memory is available the audacity of it!!
You can certainly count me in on this lawsuit. Dell and Micro$oft are blatant liars and false advertisers!
I have just installed 2×2g ram chips and to my disappointment 3326 is all that gets recognized. Then I searched the web to find out why and found this site.
That’s BS… Count me in
It is Vista SP1 which now reports 4GB on the System page. However the Performace tab on the Task Manager still reports 3325MB
(Running Vista Ultimate 64bit)
Same thing here on my dell 9400 which essentially is based on the same platform that the M90 and M65 were built.
When I’ve bought it 2 years ago, I was banking on the fact that quad core laptop would be at least 2 years away, and I could upgrade it to 4GB when 64 bits OS becomes more common (driver support) to run my favorite 3D application. Last year with the ram drop, I’ve finally went out and bought 4GB, when I installed vista x64, I’ve hit the same wall. My investment suddently turned into a deception. Now, I can’t say I haven’t used that machine, but I haven’t used it the way I fully INTENDED to use it. Since it’s not a little 1300$ laptop but more in the 2K$’s, I expect everything to work accordingly.
Yeah I just “upgraded” my Precision M90 from 2GB to 4GB and I was disappointed to find out that in BIOS it shows that I have GB of RAM but only 3.3GB available. I knew what was going on…I called Dell just to see what their BS is gonna be like and I was told “700MB is reserved for input/output devices” oh my god what I joke! This is sad, about 1.5 years ago I spent $3K on the M90, I learned my lesson:
1) It’s not worth to spend a lot of money on a laptop
2) I will consider other companies in the future
3) Better do very detailed research before I spend my money
PS: Running Windows XP Pro 32bit and Dual booting Ubuntu 8.04 64bit
Same here. No point in repeating what everyone else in here is saying. M90 Vista64 4 gigs installed, 3.25 useable……
Yep same as eric #36
Same thing here on my dell 9400 which essentially is based on the same platform that the M90 and M65 were built.
When I’ve bought it 2 years ago, I was banking on the fact that quad core laptop would be at least 2 years away, and I could upgrade it to 4GB when 64 bits OS becomes more common (driver support) to run my favorite 3D application. Last year with the ram drop, I’ve finally went out and bought 4GB, when I installed vista x64, I’ve hit the same wall. My investment suddently turned into a deception. Now, I can’t say I haven’t used that machine, but I haven’t used it the way I fully INTENDED to use it.
i also paid $3200 for it with all the extra options added to it by dell!
I have the same problem. I have a dell M65 upgraded to 4 GB of memory installed Debian 64-bit and nothing. I began to search and saw that the problem is hardware. And the manual says that Dell can install 4 GB of memory. Fraud that.
Wow - i just bought - (2 - 2 gigs of ram) directly from DELL. I was debating on 2 - 1 gigs or 2 - 2 gigs because funds are very tight these days. I opted to go with with the more expensive 2 - 2 gigs and DELL never mentioned that it was actually 3.25 gigs. I am going to proceed with installing it anyway - because i only have 1 gig total now. Machine has been dogging lately and i need all the help i can get.
I am in - please keep me posted.
Hi - Just did the same as Todd Harrington above, bought the 2X2 gigs of RAM for my M90 and was trying to figure out why in the hell only 3.25 was available. I cant believe that DELL are still selling the RAM in this configuration for the M90, more than two years after the issue was raised.
Same situation here… Bought two memory sticks of 2Gb each for upgrading my M65 laptop, but I can only use 3.25Gb.
Count me in!
Wow. I am as surpised to learn this as everyon else. has there been a clarification as to whether one 2-gig stick and one 1-gig stick will work? So, I’m not paying for ram that I can’t use.
Hi,
Same thing for me. I’ve bought my M90 in France a bit more than 2 years ago, working on 3D Animation and i waited for RAM prices to drop. Now i can afford buying 4GB but i read here that only 3/4 of this memory could be used. What a shame.
I don’t know if i can be counted as well in your Class Action Lawsuit but if possible i want to be in.
@ Erik #44
I was running 2x 2Gb in my M90 but was disappointed to find it (a) won’t use the full amount, and (b) is not even actually capable of running a 64bit OS! (T2600 CPU) Mind you, even with 64bit, it still won’t utilise it all!
Anyway, just bought an Inspiron Mini9 which came with 1Gb RAM, so removed 2Gb from the M90 and exchanged it with the 1Gb from the Mini9…
Mini9 runs A LOT faster now, and no noticeable difference with the M90 @ 3Gb!
I too bought the M90 to use 4Gb/64bit for CAD/SolidWorks/Photoshop, but making the most of a bad job. The M90 is still a good laptop.
This sucks oh zo badly. I have the same problem with my Acer 5633 and Intel 945GM chipset. I can’t comprehend that these big companies are such f*ckers. With this transition to 64 bit, they wanted to make money by having a one size fits all motherboard principle. In this case, it had to support 32bits processors as well, so the memory management part of the motherboards needed to be 32 bits. I’m so pissed off right now.
They advertised my laptop as supporting up to 4Gb of RAM.
Was planning to buy a 2GB module and upgrade the ram on my M90 to the ‘full 4GB’ making it an aparant ‘champion’. not even sure what to do now…don’t think I can even buy 1GB because the modules have to match….what a bunch of lying feckers…definitely a case of false advertising…they need a champion kick up the stones!!!